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172Recon
01-01-2009, 06:25 PM
You may have already read this since it's all over the place, but if not here it is:

YOUNG RHODE ISLAND HIKERS SAFE

CONCORD, N.H. - Two young hikers were rescued by New Hampshire Fish and Game
Department Conservation Officers Tuesday evening, December 30, 2008, saving them
from spending a cold night in a mountain cabin without adequate winter gear.

Dean Cooper and Pasquale Digiovangiacomo Jr., both age 18, of Cranston, Rhode
Island, had set out at approximately 12:30 p.m. on Tuesday, intending to hike up and
spend the night at the U.S. Forest Service's Black Mountain cabin in the White
Mountain National Forest in the area of Jackson, N.H. The inexperienced hikers were
wearing regular work boots, not insulated hiking boots. They abandoned some of their
gear, including lightweight sleeping bags and kindling, about 300 meters up the
trail. The young men arrived at the cabin at about 3 p.m. and were surprised to find
that the cabin was not equipped with blankets or other amenities. (The White
Mountain National Forest website clearly states that the rental cabin is "rustic"
and users are expected to carry in all their own gear, bedding and water.) They
tried to get a fire started in the cabin woodstove, but were unable to get it
going. Cold, wet and facing the prospect of a night with little protection from the
cold, they
called for help about 6 p.m.

Two Fish and Game Conservation officers, Brian Abrams and Bradley Morse, hiked in to
assist them, bringing along insulated hiking boots designed for winter wear, which
were loaned by the Eastern Mountain Sports equipment rental program. Morse, a
paramedic, determined that the young men's feet were not frostbitten. They were
provided with dry socks and the boots, and accompanied down the mountain by the COs,
reaching the trailhead at about 11 p.m.

"Unfortunately, these hikers were ill prepared for winter conditions," said
Abrams. "If they had had good sleeping bags and boots, they might have managed to
keep warm, but they would have needed sleeping bags made to accommodate temperatures
as low as 30 degrees below zero."

Abrams noted that people planning to go out in the elements at this time of year
must be prepared for winter's worst. If you don't own appropriate equipment, you can
often rent it at local mountaineering shops, which also can offer guidance about the
kind of gear needed to withstand particular conditions.

That'll cost 'em

The Lisa
01-01-2009, 08:08 PM
Sounds like they might be paying dearly for their ignorance.
I read recently that the NH State Fish and Game Department has more powers to punish the intoxicated and unprepared who end up needing costly rescues.

http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Found+hikers+to+pay+up%2c+or +lose+license&articleId=bc8963ef-705a-477d-b254-e610c026d7ee

I agree on principle but that every case will differ in determining what a basic level of preparedness/experience is and how the resucees were deficient in comparison. If I had to be rescued due to my own negligence I would expect to pay for my rescue.
When I hiked at the Grand Canyon a few years ago there were a lot of posted warnings stating that rescuees would be charged for their helicopter evac if they succumbed to dehydration, or wore themselves out due to overestimating their abilities.

tig
01-02-2009, 10:03 AM
The cabin is only 1.5 miles in on a well established trail:
http://hikethewhites.com/blackmtcabin.html

(Kinda like he doublehead cabin)

Couldnt they have just walked out?

RR
01-02-2009, 11:38 AM
Sensing emergent circumstances opens the mind for a very few...most folks get stupid before hypothermia sets in when they become aware they are in a tough spot.

twintipper
01-02-2009, 12:13 PM
They're lucky they get cell service. I atleast presume that's how they called for help seeing they couldn't use smoke signals without a fire.

The outdoors is a wonderful place to be, but people have to realize that winter excursions can be a entirely different world than the spring/summer/fall. Having to ditch gear to make an easier hike should have been a clue that maybe they shouldn't be where they were.

shogunnamedjust
01-02-2009, 12:58 PM
"Couldn't they have just walked out?"

That's why they have cell phones, incidents like these are going to be more and more prevelant. People have no idea how to fend for themselves, help is always just a call away. Look at what happened after the ice storm, all kinds of people were whining that the elec companies werent fast enough for there liking now they want to fine them...give me a break! This country would go to hell real fast if anything major ever happened and there was no help. I welcome steep fines for these knuckleheads and anyone who heads out unprepared, risking the lives of rescuers.

surf88
01-02-2009, 02:24 PM
I did some subzero backpacking and stayed up in the Cabot Cabin the following evening as this incident. It was -20 inside (the stove was removed years ago)when we awoke at 3am, with 60 mph winds outside. It was frosty up there. Maybe I should have called for help. It would have been nice to have fish and game bring me some hot cocoa. :rolleyes:

PWDR8S
01-02-2009, 03:58 PM
I just don't know what to say except to shake my head... Ditching WARM gear in very cold weather? Sounds more like Darwin activity happening here.

They deserve to pay whatever fines levied against their ignorance.

Somehow they bypassed the education route about winter camping and winter activities or even the fact that IT'S FREAKIN COLD OUT THERE AND IT CAN KILL YOU!

I'll just shake my head and acknowledge that it's embarrassing to be a human sometimes.

bucksaw
01-02-2009, 04:07 PM
I welcome steep fines for these knuckleheads and anyone who heads out unprepared, risking the lives of rescuers.

I do not think they will be fined, they will only need to pay the cost of the mishap which could be expensive.

In Western Canada you government buy insurance for back country travel. It covers helicopter rides, pizza delivery and entertainment.

PwdrHound
01-02-2009, 07:02 PM
Yeah....spent New Years on Mt. Greylock...it was cold!!!

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_FiBYJhu0fKA/SV6H5-yBthI/AAAAAAAAPQc/QWXFQlqvcmI/s400/DSCN6747.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_FiBYJhu0fKA/SV6H97i_U3I/AAAAAAAAPQ0/sSAzulRg2k4/s400/DSCN6750.jpg

http://lh3.ggpht.com/_FiBYJhu0fKA/SV6H-yz9DxI/AAAAAAAAPUA/TD7Wxtey14U/s400/DSCN6752.jpg

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_FiBYJhu0fKA/SV6IA18SMJI/AAAAAAAAPRU/h_fCdTXnHjI/s400/DSCN6755.jpg

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_FiBYJhu0fKA/SV6IDNNSyhI/AAAAAAAAPRk/iVKL_zjpSAo/s400/0101091150.jpg

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_FiBYJhu0fKA/SV6IJNQnLrI/AAAAAAAAPSM/kxE5tfRjGEc/s400/0101091230.jpg

No time to fuss with the syntax to embed but, this is a cool video...http://www.divshare.com/download/6229735-bb4

twintipper
01-02-2009, 09:29 PM
I did some subzero backpacking and stayed up in the Cabot Cabin the following evening as this incident. It was -20 inside (the stove was removed years ago)when we awoke at 3am, with 60 mph winds outside. It was frosty up there. Maybe I should have called for help. It would have been nice to have fish and game bring me some hot cocoa. :rolleyes:

I was up at Merck Forest in rupert, vt 12/20-23. We had a cabin 2 miles from the parking lot, got there at 3:30 after a nice drive in that storm that dropped ~8inches. Took us 3 hours to make it 2 miles. Skinning with a pack and sled and being the lucky one to break trail was tough sh!t.

Brought my summer bag thinking we could get the cabin hot enough, WRONG IDEA. Would sleep for about 2 hours then stoke the fire for one all night long. Everyone else on the trip woke up to a nice warm cabin thanks to my mishap.

Even though I wasn't prepared enough with a proper bag, I had packed enough warm clothes that if it came down to it I could have slept a couple of jackets, 3 or 4 layers of pants.

Guess I could have called for a delivery of a warmer bag.:doh:

M@
01-02-2009, 10:46 PM
I am totally out of chicken wings right now - I'm calling fish and game - get me a chopper full of wings. I totally don't have the right kind of boots to make my own chicken wings.

M@

BladeGirl
01-03-2009, 04:40 PM
I am totally out of chicken wings right now - I'm calling fish and game - get me a chopper full of wings. I totally don't have the right kind of boots to make my own chicken wings.

M@

Maybe you shouldn't have abandoned your chicken wings 300 meters up the trail.:p


-BG

ILOVE2SKI
01-04-2009, 11:28 AM
1.4 miles = 2 253.0816 meters
300 / 2253 = 0.133155792 or 13.3% of the way to the cabin, or .186 miles.
Why didn't they turn around?

M@
01-04-2009, 11:49 AM
Maybe you shouldn't have abandoned your chicken wings 300 meters up the trail.:p

It was that or the bacon.

M@

TheCrazyGreek
01-04-2009, 09:08 PM
Im glad these kids have to pay i think they should have started this a long time ago. You all know as well i as i do you always got to be prepared for the unexpected. You cant have the attitude that you own the mountain

The Lisa
01-04-2009, 11:05 PM
It was that or the bacon.

M@

http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gif

Well, Bacon IS one of the Ten Essentials.

172Recon
01-05-2009, 08:36 AM
http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/lachen/laughing-smiley-014.gif

Well, Bacon IS one of the Ten Essentials.
I thought it was one of the three food groups, the others being beer and bread.

The Lisa
01-05-2009, 09:12 PM
I thought it was one of the three food groups, the others being beer and bread.

FIVE food groups, you left out chocolate and coffee. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/ernaehrung/food-smiley-021.gif