Avalanche classes

[Ispoiler]

This is going to be my last year in the northeast, I will be starting law school in Oregon in the fall of 2005 and hope to moved in by this time next summer. I had intended on taking avalanche classes before next winter, would it be better to take a basic intro courses here and take the more advanced classes out west were I will be riding?

[Jolly J]

This may or may not answer your question more of my .02 cents (CAD). I took the Level one through Chauvin Guides (http://www.chauvinguides.com) and thought it was well run an very informative. Great course and I would recommend them to anyone.

[el-bagr]

FWIW, snowpacks and terrain are regionally variable. The fundamental principles of avalanche avoidance are essentially similar throughout the globe, but I believe the intimate knowledge of what the snowpack will do needs to be acquired in each region. New England or northern Utah winter avy conditions are different from PNW spring snows.

I know it's a long term question, but do you plan to stay out in the PNW? If you think you'll return to ski NE avy terrain, I'd be more inclined to take the level I here than if school is your ticket out for good. Otherwise, you're in for long seasons of 30% snow -- which, since it's snow, is still fluffy enough to make New Englanders jealous in July.

[Ispoiler]

Much like my future student loans, I am looking to stay indefinitely. PNW has so much more to offer me. My family is in the Northeast so I would hope to be able to ride once or twice a season in the Whites.

[skibum12583]

Hello Ispoiler and everyone else!! Having avalanche knowledge and a basic understanding of snowpack mechanics is very important to have when you go into the BC. I have not yet taken any courses, but I look forward to doing so next winter. I found a few books to be informative about avies, with Secrets of the Snow by Edward R. LaChapelle being the most informative. He has another book called "Field Guide to Snow Crystals" that i need to get myself. "Mountaineering, the freedom of the hills" is pretty useful as well. Also I like to keep an eye on the www.tuckerman.org (http://www.tuckerman.org/) recent pictures because they tell a pretty good story, plus they take alot of pictures when theres a big avy. Unless you will be coming back here for an extended period of time, I wouldnt take any advanced courses out east, because I've read that our slides are very different from those out west because ours are mostly from windblown snow. I remember reading some old articles in SKI magazine about the many failed atempts at avalanche control/bombing, and they can never understand why it doesnt work like it does out west. SO anyway, I hope my five cents have been informative, but seriously buy the books by LaChapelle, get them onj amazon and theyre cheap, and if u get them as a bundle with a thrid book, you might be able to get free shipping!

cheers, :cooldog:
Les

[jshefftz]

I found a few books to be informative about avies, with Secrets of the Snow by Edward R. LaChapelle being the most informative. He has another book called "Field Guide to Snow Crystals" that i need to get myself. "Mountaineering, the freedom of the hills" is pretty useful as well. Unless you will be coming back here for an extended period of time, I wouldnt take any advanced courses out east, because I've read that our slides are very different from those out west because ours are mostly from windblown snow. I remember reading some old articles in SKI magazine about the many failed atempts at avalanche control/bombing, and they can never understand why it doesnt work like it does out west.
Wind transport of snow is a critical factor in *any* part of the world, so the Prezzies’ strong winds do not make any avy education our here somehow inapplicable to other climates.
That said, the big distinction is among the three generalized climates of Maritime-Continental-Transitional. The Prezzies and PNW both fall under the Maritime climate, i.e., generally direction action avies, with less concern for deeply buried and persistently week layers (as is the primary concern in a Continental climate like CO).
Plus chauvinguides.com is outstanding, and Jay is an excellent instructor (based on both my Level 2 and 3 courses this past winter), and they’re the only NH provider that adheres to http://www.avtraining.org guidelines.
As for Tux avy control, the only failure was because the avalauncher blew up (Brad Ray has a hilarious story about that), and local communities were concerned (whether justifiably or not) that errant rounds would sail over a ridgeline and . . .
Anyway, they stopped doing it not b/c of some mysteries of the Prezzies snowpack, but b/c since when does anyone else attempt to control a backcountry noncommercial nonmotorized-access region for recreationalists?
As for books, those recs are kind of going about it backwards.
Reviews of avalanche books I’ve read:

Snow Sense: A Guide to Evaluating Snow Avalanche Hazard
by Jill A. Fredston, Doug Fesler, Douglas S. Fesler
- A great intro book, with an excellent info/page ratio. Anyone about to take an intro avy course should read this book first. Presentation is very well organized.

Avalanche Aware
by John Moynier
- If you’re in even more of a hurry, this is another great intro book, but significantly shorter than Snow Sense. Makes for a nice refresher, say, the night before a big trip.

The Basic Essentials of Avalanche Safety
by Buck Tilton, Marc Bohne
- Another good intro book, but Snow Sense is better, and about the same length.

Avalanche Safety: For Skiers & Climbers
by Tony Daffern
- An intermediate-level book, with more information than the previously mentioned books, but presentation is at times confusing.

The Avalanche Handbook
by David McClung, Peter Schaerer
- An advanced-level book, almost more like a college textbook. Those with a scientific background will appreciate the detailed information, but I often found myself lost among all the details (even despite my quantitative tendencies as an economist). Although the definitive resource for professional forecasters, recreationists might not find it very helpful.

Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain
by Bruce Tremper
- An intermediate-level book, which I think is so good that anyone serious about snow safety should skip all the intro-level books and instead read this first. The presentation is very well organized, but more importantly is focused on how you can *use* the information. Snow science concepts are always introduced with an explanation of how they affect the safety of the recreationalist. The book also present excellent information on the dynamics of decision making. (The actuarial table alone is worth price of the book.) After reading the other books, I felt I had lots of information, but didn’t know what to do with it. By contrast, my reaction to many passages in this book was, “ah, *now* I get it!” Also, Tremper actually makes stability assessment sound like, well, fun! His enthusiasm and inspiration were a major factor in my taking the Level 2 & 3 courses (well, besides the other factor of course of not wanting to get myself killed).

Secrets of the Snow: Visual Clues to Avalanche and Ski Conditions
by Edward R. Lachapelle
- An excellent supplement to other avy books, this is not a complete guide to avalanche safety but rather a collection of fascinating photographs of snow conditions with explanatory text.

Field Guide to Snow Crystals
by Edward R. Lachapelle
- Another excellent supplement to other avy books, once again this is not a complete guide to avalanche safety but rather a collection of photographs that is very useful for the continuing study of snow metamorphosis.

Mountaineering: The Freedom of the Hills
- One of the (many) chapters in this comprehensive volume contains a good introduction to avy safety, but it’s not a substitute for a stand-alone book.

[Oh, and finally, congrats on law school!]

[Sanchez]

I wonder if EMS still runs the avalanche course...they did ten or eleven years ago, I think. I'm going up there today, may as well find out.

[NHski]

The Prezzies and PNW both fall under the Maritime climate, i.e., generally direction action avies, with less concern for deeply buried and persistently week layers (as is the primary concern in a Continental climate like CO).
Plus chauvinguides.com is outstanding, and Jay is an excellent instructor (based on both my Level 2 and 3 courses this past winter), and they’re the only NH provider that adheres to http://www.avtraining.org guidelines.


I completely agree with you on Jay at Chauvin being an excellent instructor. I had him as my instructor for level 1 and have used him on a few trips. My understanding (pretty limited) was that the presi's snowpack was not maritime or continental, rather a combination of both.

[NHski]

And snow sense is a great book, would recommend it to anyone. I will have to check out this Staying Alive in Avalanche Terrain.

[Zack]

Take the class here and start getting good with a beacon, as well as stockpiling the necessary gear. The level 1 classes teach primarily how to use beacon/shovel/probe/saw and how to do the block test, dig a rudimentary pit, see different snow layers, learn all the terms, etc. Basically, the stuff you will learn can apply to any area. Its the level 2 and 3 that become specific to the snowpack, and teach how to dig full data pits. You shouldnt have any problem going from a Level 1 on the east coast to a level 2 on the west coast.

[mainwaring]

I completely agree with you on Jay at Chauvin being an excellent instructor. I had him as my instructor for level 1 and have used him on a few trips. My understanding (pretty limited) was that the presi's snowpack was not maritime or continental, rather a combination of both.

i thought i needed a refresher since it had been about 10yrs since i received my level 2 and 3 training so i took the chauvin level 1 w/ jay as well. i agree with the others - he was competant, knowledgeable, and professional. the class was a good refresher, and since perhaps the biggest changes are in technology, learning on the new beacons was especially useful. i'd highly recommend if you don't have any prior avy knowledge or if you are looking to move up the ladder to level 2 and 3.

and though the NE would be technically maritime in classification, and places like utah, co, and interior bc would be typically continental, i think nhski is correct in suggesting that the snowpack can be a combination of the 2 in the NE. the point being, in the west, places like cali (sierras), the pnw and coastal bc regions typically are maritime and have more h20 content to their snowpacks the east coast is a bit harder to define and does not fit as easily into one classification.

my .02 - anyone spending recreational time in the backcountry (i.e. not professional guides) will be much better served devoting most of their time to safe route finding, proper decision making and search and rescue (beacon, probe and shovel) techniques. spending time learning the details of snowpack is interesting but can be a case of not seeing the forest for the trees if used exclusively in decision making. often, if you are climbing something you will ski/board you will be able to make intuitive decisions on the snow based at that "ground" level that the reutschblock/shear tests will only tend to enhance.