Splitboard advice

[pulverschwein]

I know little to nothing of this splitboard deal, but know lots of y'all do.

Generally in BC I snowshoe up and board down when there's pow. In hard conditions and if terrain isn't too extreme, I tele. Same deal at the resort, if it's soft I board, hard, tele. I was a really good downhiller all my life, but stopped about 15 years ago when I started teleing - I'm still not great on the freeheel gear, but that's prolly b/c I started boarding about 12 years ago and definitely am better at that and prefer it when it's soft.

I've tried various combinations of teleing up while carrying board, and that's a ridiculous waste of weight and energy. Snowshoeing pisses me off when you could glide for small stretches on skis. Prolly time to get me a splitty.

Much obliged for any advice re: boards / binders / boots. I see affix talking about all this dynafit experimentation. I'm a good boarder and ride some pretty steep BC pitches and have some ice climbing training / experience / gear, so it would prolly be best if my boots can accommodate crampons better than my softies do, so I reckon that means hard boots. I'd prefer buying a manufactured splitty as opposed to cutting it myself (do people still cut em?) b/c I want two edges per ski and I'm not the most mechanically inclined dood out there.

Muchas,
pulver

[Affix Snow]

OK. Advice.

From your description id say go buy a Voile Mtn Gun or a Prior. Voile is cheaper but the MTN. Gun rides just as well. (Dont bother w/ the Voile Freeride...too soft.) Burton makes one that is nice but the board alone it $600...then you need to buy the interface and skins and that will run you $300, so you might as well buy a Prior or.....

I ride a Custon Never Summer but it cost me a solid Grand and that might be alot, but wortth every penny!

Now, I ride in Scarpa Matrix AT boots and love them...they also work for Ice...but there are other AT options that are just as sweet. PLUS using a plate Binding, you save ALOT of weight off your feet, etc. BUT you need to know if you like using hardboots to snowboard in, which id recommend trying to demo some before you buy if you can...

Here is a review i did...if you scroll though i think i updated on my progress, but to set it straight, I LOVE AT boots in a snowboaard.
http://timefortuckerman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6121&highlight=Scarpa+Matrix

IF you dont like AT boots, a mountaineering boot will also work well. I also use La Sportiva Nuptse and Ispoiler uses Koflach's both in a regular Starp binding.
http://timefortuckerman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5254&highlight=Nuptse
They ride like snowboard boots and can take step-in cramps and climb amazing.....

Simply put, Splitboarding is THE BEST thing to happen to BC Snowboarding. I scoff at slowshoes.

Also check out

www.splitboard.com

Feel free to ask any questions....im sorry if this rambled. :)

[pulverschwein]

OK. Advice.
Thanks for gettin me started in my research, dood. I'm sure I'll be back with loads of dumb questions.

[Affix Snow]

Thanks for gettin me started in my research, dood. I'm sure I'll be back with loads of dumb questions.

The only dumb questions are the ones you dont ask...feel free.

[RR]

...Simply put, Splitboarding is THE BEST thing to happen to BC Snowboarding. I scoff at slowshoes. :)Reps!

[Rider.Steve]

OK. Advice.

.....

Simply put, Splitboarding is THE BEST thing to happen to BC Snowboarding. I scoff at slowshoes.



Like he said, .............except two things............it's about those pesky New England trails:

- On rocky trails with minimal snow base and,
- On steep trails without room for switchbacks,

snowshoes *may* be faster on the ascent than the S.B. I have experienced this phenomenon in situations where I have not climbed what I slid (partly in situations on ascents with snowshoers where the ski trail is skinning only, no postholers).

Steve

[Justin]

http://lifeisaroad.com/images/darkside.jpg

Sorry I couldn't resist... Cookie monster rocks.

[pulverschwein]

Mainwaring - tried PMing you back, but your inbox is full. Clean it out dood, or I'll just give you a call in the next week or 2.
Muchas,
pulver

[Rider.Steve]

Pulver,

While you're in the SB vein, here's a link to a thread about the DIY splits - although you are thinking manufactured product, the images show some of the issues:

http://timefortuckerman.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3405&highlight=splitboard

Steve

[pulverschwein]

While you're in the SB vein, here's a link to a thread about the DIY splits -
Thanks for the link, R.S, interesting stuff. I'm a bit apprehensive about DIY and will prolly go the mfr'd route, but your project is a cool read. With my skills with power tools around metal edges, think I'll pay a few extra bucks and keep all four fingers on each of me hands.:doh: :eek: :D

[mainwaring]

Mainwaring - tried PMing you back, but your inbox is full. Clean it out dood, or I'll just give you a call in the next week or 2.
Muchas,
pulver

box = douched

feel free to call whenever you have time to talk.

[Rider.Steve]

Thanks for the link, R.S, interesting stuff. I'm a bit apprehensive about DIY and will prolly go the mfr'd route, but your project is a cool read. With my skills with power tools around metal edges, think I'll pay a few extra bucks and keep all four fingers on each of me hands.:doh: :eek: :D

The DIY spitboard is a challenge to create and to maintain (reference my Jay Peak binding blow-out, hopefully finally repaired); I can't recommend it to someone who has the $$ to buy a complete setup.

I mainly thought the arrangement of bindings for my AT boots would be of interest, vs. the strap setup for soft boots that Toddski set up. I have not used the straps, but Affix has used the plate bindings with various hardboots, as well as straps.

I'd like to buy a pre-made SB setup myself, but spent my $$ on tele gear this summer, so will continue with the DIY SB.

Steve

[pulverschwein]

Y'all wit splitty info / experience (affix / R.S. / Ispoiler / Mainwaring / Justin), please 'splain dis: I'm getting a real good deal on a prior wit "plates for a hardboot setup". I've never ridden and don't own hardboots. After chatting with an experienced friend who's got a prior / softy setup, I'm thinking I want to use my stiff new softies and their binders. He says this is the best setup for my style, which is mostly day trips or basecamp ascents without huge, multi-day approaches.

My question is this: is any interface required to attach my softy binders to these plates, or do they simply screw into a hinged plate for touring that turns and is fixed for descent? If I need more hardware to modify my nitro softies for tour mode or I need new soft "touring binders", who makes em / where do I get em? Am I a sap for wanting to stay on the softies, esp. b/c I'm in Bellingham right now and can get used mountaineering or AT boots for a song? Should I demo a board with hard boots and touring bindings? If so, how / where @?

Sorry to be a pain wit all these stoopit questions - I'm just too indecisive and would buy it all if I only had the funds.

-A much obliged pulver.

[172Recon]

You don't necessarily need the traditional snowboard hardboots with a plate set up. In fact, I find those boots a hinderance in the BC as far as comfort and warmth. With that said, you can easily find a great ice boot that is very flexible that will interface nicely with the binding, so long as the toe/heel rand is large enough to accept the toe/heel bail on the binding. I have two set ups, one being a Voile split with plates, and the other being a Burton Asym Air with Bomber plates. Both work perfectly with my Koflach ice boots that are over ten years old. I bought them used at IME for $50.00. If you do try that route, make sure you bring your bindings with you when you are shopping for a boot, to ensure a nice SAFE fit.

Good luck!

Tim

[RR]

There comes a time in boarder-mountaineering (I just made that up, for me it would be ski-mountaineering) when you will have to climb a steep ridge mountaineering style or some 70 degree snow&ice gully.

Ask yourself:
1- Can I climb this 80 degree arete with confidence in my snowboard boots?

2- Are the crampons that fit regular snowbaord boots technical enough for that ice pillar?

3- Will the snowboard boot/crampon interface be precise enough to that section with dime size edges?

4- How hard it is to get parts for or actually replace the crampons that actually fit my snowboard boots in Banf, in Valle Nevedo, in Chamonix, in Corvarra?

Now consider what 172Recon said and the example of Jeff, the snowbaording Ranger at Mt Washington. Mountaineering boots are the answer! Next after that would be some softer AT/Rando boots.

Just my two cents!

[DMC]

One more splitboarder checking in...

just don't get the Burton interface.... that's all I have to add...

[Ispoiler]

This about sums it up

http://timefortuckerman.com/photopost/data/898/1732image00281-med.jpg

Slowshoes are not fun on long slogs or steeps.

[Toddski]

My question is this: is any interface required to attach my softy binders to these plates, or do they simply screw into a hinged plate for touring that turns and is fixed for descent? If I need more hardware to modify my nitro softies for tour mode or I need new soft "touring binders", who makes em / where do I get em? Am I a sap for wanting to stay on the softies, esp. b/c I'm in Bellingham right now and can get used mountaineering or AT boots for a song? Should I demo a board with hard boots and touring bindings? If so, how / where @?

Hey yall,
My.02 for Pulver. I just can’t deal with any type of hard boot for snowboarding. I’ve tried it, raced in them for years and it’s just not for me. Also have worn stiff soled mountaineering boots inside tradition bindings, but the ankle support and inside cushion is just not there. Once again, just my opinion… no offense to those hard up over hard boots, but I just don’t get it. These are just some reasons why I choose to ride soft. First and foremost it’s all about going down… not up; the hindrance of hard boots and literally cramping my style is not worth it, there is a reason I stopped skiing and the F@#$%ing uncomfortable boots were a big part of it! In some ways I think hard boots for less skilled boarders are a confidence booster, both in climbing something sketchy vert and edge control over the steep bullet proof, and there is nothing wrong with that mechanical advantage, but once again that is not something I want or need. Kind of like the guy riding around with huge off-road tires on the SUV, it’s there if he needs it but for 95% of his driving normal tires are better suited for the conditions. I have had no major problems climbing gnarly stuff in the Whites with soft boots, strap on crampons and a small axe, if the terrain so extreme that need hard boots to climb then I shouldn’t be up there anyways. Snowboarding in hardboots is like eating a steak with a condom over my tongue- I can feel it, but I can’t taste it… its too precise and twitchy, center of balance is way too high and constrained and there is very little room for error or recovery… especially in the BC! I need to be loose, able to adjust quickly and throw my weight around; hard boots and plates do not allow me to go with the normal flow. For instance in a steep tight chute I might need to ride fakie for some turns and the softies allow me to do that. Softboots are also great in the SlackCountry too, I just grab my split for that exploratory run, make sure I have my skins and I’m good to go wherever without a big gear change, plus I can moonwalk on flat ground or drive a car. I guess what I’m getting at, is that it seems totally silly to me to change my current “resort” boarding set up just so I can make some kick steps and click in faster. Obviously hard boots work for allot of people and there are defiantly some advantages, it’s just a Coke or Pepsi thang and you should taste both before you invest.

Pulver- Tips for soft bindings on a SB. I do really like Ride bindings, but some other companies might work well too, the Rides are cheap but are holding up great. Look for these things. Metal base plate, low profile and stiff. Plastic was just too bulky and flexy. Front straps must be the kind that bolts directly into the sides of the base plate; some companies (Burton, Drake) just slide in though the bottom and are held into place when the binding is bolted to the board. Straight highbacks are nice, in other words do they fold neatly into itself, burtons are asymmetrical and don’t pack away nice. As far as hardware for attaching the softy binding to the Voile plate I just went to the hardware store and got stainless T-Nuts, make sure the bolts are short enough as to not hit the pucks…. I actually had to grind my bolts down. Metal base plate bindings usually have a bit of rubber on the underside, so you don’t need Voile rubber spacer when mounting.

OK, I’m rambling on too much. Softies will work just fine in the BC when accompanied with the other proper gear. Good luck!

Toddski Out

[DMC]

I think the hardboot thing has a lot to do with the skinning part doesn't it?

Isn't it easier to skin with hardboots?

[Rider.Steve]

I agree with RR, Todd and DMC:

1. RR: plastic boots most secure for the steep boot climb, with step-in crampon option.

2. Todd: softboots offer supreme riding feel and control for the descent, and soft binding base can easily be mounted to the Voile split slider track with standard machine screw hardware (which answers Pulver's actual question).

3. DMC: hardboots offer most efficient/stable platform for skinning (my add: particularly on steeper traverses).

Gentlemen (and ladies) choose your weapon!

Steve

[DMC]

I agree with RR, Todd and DMC:

1. RR: plastic boots most secure for the steep boot climb, with step-in crampon option.

2. Todd: softboots offer supreme riding feel and control for the descent, and soft binding base can easily be mounted to the Voile split slider track with standard machine screw hardware (which answers Pulver's actual question).

3. DMC: hardboots offer most efficient/stable platform for skinning (my add: particularly on steeper traverses).

Gentlemen (and ladies) choose your weapon!

Steve

Awesome...

I just picked up a pair of Burton Driver X's and they are pretty stiff... I can't wait to try and skin with them. So far I love them..

Have yet to test out the AT Boots/plates...

[surf88]

I agree with RR, Todd and DMC:

1. RR: plastic boots most secure for the steep boot climb, with step-in crampon option.

2. Todd: softboots offer supreme riding feel and control for the descent, and soft binding base can easily be mounted to the Voile split slider track with standard machine screw hardware (which answers Pulver's actual question).

3. DMC: hardboots offer most efficient/stable platform for skinning (my add: particularly on steeper traverses).

Gentlemen (and ladies) choose your weapon!

Steve
Hard boots (I ride BC with Koflach Verticals) take very little getting used to. They are warmer and interface well with other mountaineering accessories. Soft boots tear up your calf muscles when skinning, or boot packing.

[pulverschwein]

One more splitboarder checking in...

just don't get the Burton interface.... that's all I have to add...
Posilutely, absotively NOT gonna do this. Thank ya kindly.

[Affix Snow]

There is a difference here worth pointing out.....

There are AT boots (Matrix, Megaride, etc.) and Plastic Mountaineering Boots (Koflachs, etc.)

Sure they are both "Hard boots" but they are different, especially when using a plate binding like the Voile Mountain Plate.

AT boots work best with a plate binding. They have a very high cuff and can control the board effortlesslty. PMBs are not a good match for a plate binding. Without the high cuff you have far less control of the board. I know some people actually use Koflachs with a Mtn Plate, but i wouldnt recommend it.

Ispoiler uses Koflachs in his Softboot binding for a reason.....

[pulverschwein]

As far as hardware for attaching the softy binding to the Voile plate I just went to the hardware store and got stainless T-Nuts, make sure the bolts are short enough as to not hit the pucks…. I actually had to grind my bolts down.

Thank ya kindly,Toddski. I actually (sort of) lucked out yesterday - I was at Mt. Baker in the fricking pouring rain and started chatting with come of the splittly doods there. They encouraged me to use the softies and actually did the T-Nut grinding for me. He spent an hour and charged the exorbitant price of 5 bucks (well, he also got a well-deserved six pack of Fat Tire and a juicy nugget for a tip;) ).

After talking with mainwaring for a while after reading RR, DMC, Surf88 and R.S.'s advice, one thing that became clear is that these west side cats don't appreciate the knarly mixed terrain we easties deal with during our ascents. While they can traverse while skinning up wide open gullies, we sometimes run into the aretes, ice boulder fields, frozen riverbeds that beg for some serious climbing type gear. I think that's part of the beauty of this setup I'm looking at; I hope to have both options available and ready to use depending on what conditions I find meself in.

As always, I'm eternally grateful for all of your advice and will update on the results of my various experimentation. Now let's focus on the real important part: building a deep and stable base to last through a long season.

[pulverschwein]

This about sums it up

http://timefortuckerman.com/photopost/data/898/1732image00281-med.jpg

Slowshoes are not fun on long slogs or steeps.
One of the few things I know fer sure.

[pulverschwein]

Ispoiler uses Koflachs in his Softboot binding for a reason.....
That's what the very kewel doods at the BC pantry in bellingham suggested. And they gots used Koflach's galore (just not in my size). I've assigned my bro to check on them weekly.
Also: picked up a pair of 2-3 yo T-2s in great shape fer < 100 clams and some kicka$$ hardly used BD climbing gloves for 30. If you get to Bellingham, this is the joint.

[Toddski]

Certainly hardboots are more efficient for skinning and mountaineering… then again if being efficient was the main goal… I’d stick to tele skis. I’m just trying to make the point to Pulver that he doesn’t need to get into the whole hardboot thing right off the bat, when the gear he currently has will probably serves his needs just fine. I have been on some pretty major skinning slogs (4+ hours) with the softies in groups of all teles, and my only complaints are in the flats in board mode. Plate bindings or clickers would be nice to cut down on strap and ratchet time when skating around. I also defiantly think there is a nice advantage to the hardboot in downhill “ski” mode, but as far as pain, cramps or blisters when skinning in softies, I have never experienced any of that. I rather enjoy wearing softies in the BC, they are wicked warm, very light, easy to hike in and all day comfortable… wish I could say the same about those Frankenstein boots. I do remember and have seen first hand Damian Sanders ripping it up and tweaking in his Koflachs, it certainly can be done, but soft boots are the most efficient natural way to get down… which again is why I’m splitting in the first place.

… uggh, I’ll never forget the day I help a girl riding at Abasin…in ski boots on a board with both shin bones broken at the boot line, she was laying face down in the snow and her board and boots were still upright! GROSS!

Anyways… that’s sweet Pulver, now get out and shred!

[Rider.Steve]

… uggh, I’ll never forget the day I help a girl riding at Abasin…in ski boots on a board with both shin bones broken at the boot line, she was laying face down in the snow and her board and boots were still upright! GROSS!

I saw a girl like that when I was riding at South Park - unreal!

[Affix Snow]

No one is trying to convert anyone to hardboots here Toddski......do what works.

Just pointing out the advatages and disadvatages....let him decide on his own.

[Toddski]

No one is trying to convert anyone to hardboots here Toddski......do what works.

Just pointing out the advatages and disadvatages....let him decide on his own.
Yeah you are it’s a hardboot conspiracy! Before you know it you guys will be telling him more silly things like that beer actually tastes good!:D

[Rider.Steve]

Yeah you are it’s a hardboot conspiracy! Before you know it you guys will be telling him more silly things like that beer actually tastes good!:D

I just picked up my new Clicker HB boots and can't wait to split with them; they are *so* comfortable.

No, I don't like beer.

[Affix Snow]

Beer is the greatest. Dont be talking SH!T about beer! :D

[Rider.Steve]

I don't *like* beer. I *heart* beer. :p

[surf88]

Ispoiler uses Koflachs in his Softboot binding for a reason.....
Yeah. I use my koflachs with softboot bindings. not plate bindings. And to strike a common ground with toddski, I've found Ride bindings the best.
I spend part of my winters out west and my two sisters have been teaching out there for years. Westies are definetly more orthodox when it comes to equiptment and technique, I 've received plenty of crap about the snowboarding in mountaineering boots thing, but hey it works for me. I've even scored well in big air events while my soft boots sat at home.