axe &/or pons

[adh24]

Got a little extra cash laying around from after the holiday. Have been watching ebay and steepandcheap was wondering if any one out there has a set of pons or a decent axe FS? Doesn't have to be brand new just looking for something functional, but then again don't want anything out of grandpa's closet.

[Justin]

assuming you already have Beacon/shovel/probe i'd prolly go pons... I know many who think they should be bought together only FWIW.

[astrotech]

You can use an ice axe without crampons, but shouldn't use crampons without an ice axe.

That said, I don't have a good deal for you. But keep checking all the online outfitters, most are having sales right now.

[adh24]

Oh I intend to get and use both. I have a couple bids right now in on ebay. Waiting for that SAC miracle though. Should of just got the step ins that were up last week

[adh24]

Have been seeing a lot of STUBIAI brand crampons on ebay. Never heard of them before. Anyone want to share some input who has experience with these.

[RR]

The finish is rougher on Stubai gear*. The quality leaders: Grivel, Petzl Charlet (formerly Charlet Moser) , and Black Diamond...they all test to the highest standards and continually push the durability and performance of their products...mostly in competition with each other....and they pay athletes to use their gear. All of that costs money...hence the higher price at each product level. Stubai has older technology so unit prices are higher when the metals are the same quality....consequently, to hold down price lesser metals are used in many cases. The Stubai alu crampons don't stand up as well as the Grivel alu crampons for instance. The Stubai steel pons fare better, but don't stay sharp as well as the BD Contact crampons.

* The Stubai co-operative (Stubai valley, Austria) is a great idea...the quality is spotty and some question their test methods for carabiners. The fit and finish is enough to keep me away.

[adh24]

The finish is rougher on Stubai gear*. The quality leaders: Grivel, Petzl Charlet (formerly Charlet Moser) , and Black Diamond...they all test to the highest standards and continually push the durability and performance of their products...mostly in competition with each other....and they pay athletes to use their gear. All of that costs money...hence the higher price at each product level. Stubai has older technology so unit prices are higher when the metals are the same quality....consequently, to hold down price lesser metals are used in many cases. The Stubai alu crampons don't stand up as well as the Grivel alu crampons for instance. The Stubai steel pons fare better, but don't stay sharp as well as the BD Contact crampons.

* The Stubai co-operative (Stubai valley, Austria) is a great idea...the quality is spotty and some question their test methods for carabiners. The fit and finish is enough to keep me away.

Hmm Good info thanks RR something I'll keep in mind as there are more stubai items popping up on ebay

[Telemark]

You can use an ice axe without crampons, but shouldn't use crampons without an ice axe.
For nearly all hiking in New England, crampons are much more important then an ice axe. There are dozens of times that I've used crampons where there is no danger of falling any appreciable distance. Hiking on icy trails in the woods an ice axe is just another sharp thing that can hurt you. Crampons are essential for travel, ice axes are not.

There are times above treeline where you can fall a long distance; in those cases you need to be able to self-arrest with an axe. If you are wearing crampons up there you'd better have an axe. But most hiking in New England doesn't require an axe.

So, it depends on what hiking/skiing is being planned.

[M@]

I've got crampons and no axe. I'm a total noob on the crampons - having only used them to climb from the floor of the ravine over the headwall. I have no formal training on how to use them.

I'm reading "Freedom of the Hills" now - and will be pinging the avalanch course instructor Steve on their safe usage next month. I am particularly interested in self arrest techniques that will prevent what I have heard is a "guaranteed broken ankle" due to travel with crampons and without an axe.

That being said - I've used them for about 10 ascents up the ravine (left gully, lip, chute) and it was night vs. day in terms of my stability and how safe I felt. I also noticed I was able to move much faster than companions without them.

I'm looking at axes, and might get one, but right now my method of ascending the ravine is crampons on the ski boots, skis over a shoulder and poles in the opposite hand. I will probably advance to the axe in a hand and the skis in a pack at some point.

Don't take this as advice on what you should do. I'm sure many noobs like myself have strapped a pair of crampons on at the floor of the ravine and took a high speed tumble which resulted in lacerations and damaged ankles - or they tried to stop with their feet and did somersaults causing damage that wouldn't have happened had they not been wearing them.:skierpetrified:

I've been up the headwall many times without them - but won't go again without them - because they just make it soooo much easier.

M@