MSR Reactor - another stove

[RR]

Thanks to PWDR8S for mentioning it I went looking to beta.

Here is what Duane Raleigh says about it in a head-to-head battle with the Jetboil (btw: the Reactor has a built-in starter theses days. There is a great picture in the article, a pdf file- http://www.msrcorp.com/rock_ice_reactor.pdf)

fireversusfire
Weight
msr reactor 20 ounces with 2-quart pot
Jetboil 15 ounces with 1.25-quart pot
(also available with 1.5 liter pot;add 4 ounces)
Boil times at 65 degrees F
reactor 2:38 minimum; 4:50 maximum
Jetboil 4:49 minimum; 8:50 maximum
Boil time at 9 degrees F
reactor 5:25
Jetboil 10:24
Boil time in 7mph Wind
reactor 2:58
Jetboil would not boil
Number of quarts Boiled
(220-gram propane/butane mix)
reactor 24
Jetboil 28
total Burn time
reactor 77 minutes
Jetboil 197 minutes


It was only a matter of tIme before
MSR, the Toyota of climbing and backpacking stoves,
picked up the gauntlet shoved down its throat three
years ago by the upstart Jetboil, which unleashed an
integrated stove and pot that touted fast boil times,
decent performance in wind, and the best fuel-effi-
ciency ever seen in a propane/butane canister cooker.
Jetboil did this by inventing a more-efficient heattransfer
system. Rather than relying on a simple
flame licking the bottom of a pot, Jetboil welded a
heat-absorbing radiator to the pot. The accordianlike
device absorbs heat that would normally be lost
and transfers it to the pot. Simple and effective. Jetboil,
the first real stove innovation in decades, was
an overnight sensation and developed a new category
in which it was all alone.
It took MSR’s best minds several years to work out
the bugs, but their Reactor is in most regards the bestperforming
canister stove yet. Like the Jetboil, the
Reactor sports a heat-exchanger on the bottom of the
cookpot. In this case, however, the heat-exchanger is
larger and heftier, improving heat absorption. Moreover,
a special fabric-like material covers the heat
source, making it virtually flameless. The fabric
glows red hot like a branding iron, rather than spits
wasteful flame into the air like a conventional burner.
The bottom of the pot, which is concave, nests over
the convex burner. The close fit and the combination
of the stove’s convection and conduction properties
make the Reactor virtually impervious to wind. A
swing lever lets you control the heat from maximum
blast to simmer.
With a full canister, the Reactor boiled a quart of
water in just under three minutes, the equivalent of
breaking the sound barrier in the world of camping
stoves. And, owing to a built-in pressure regulator,
the Reactor largely kept that performance, never
taking longer than four minutes to boil even when
the canister was nearly empty. In comparison, other
canister stoves, including the Jetboil, saw a radical
decrease in heat output as the canister gas depleted,
taking nearly twice as long to boil the last quart of
water as the first.
But that’s indoors, where even a pile of Kingsford
briquettes will perform admirably. Only in the wind
and cold can you separate the wheat from the chaff.
Here, the whisper-quiet Reactor pulled away with the
ease of a floored Lamborghini. In a 7 mph wind—a stiff
breeze—the Reactor still boiled in under three minutes.
For perspective on this water-to-wine miracle, of
the 23 other stoves I’ve tested in the past three years,
not a single one including the Jetboil could boil water
in under 10 minutes in the same conditions.
The Reactor’s cold-weather performance, the bane
of canister stoves, was also standard-setting. Typically,
below-freezing temps cause canister fuel’s vapor pressure
to drop and burner output to plummet, often to
the point where the stove will no longer function. At
9 degrees F, however, the Reactor’s pressure regulator
let it boil a quart of water in 5:25—a time that bests
some canister stoves’ warm-weather performances.
Weaknesses? Costing nearly $140, you’d expect
the Reactor to at least come with a coupon for a
neck rub. The Reactor package is also heavy. The
burner component itself weighs only 6 ounces, but
the hefty heat-exchanger bumps up the weight to a
whopping 20 ounces. If you’re looking for a featherweight
cooker, one to toss in your pack “just in
case” or for brewing up now and then, this isn’t it.
The Reactor, like the Jetboil, also only functions
with its pot component. Meals are limited to one-pot
dehydrated affairs, rice and the like—no bacon and
eggs for you! The pot’s two-quart capacity would
be good for melting snow.
The Jetboil does outshine the Reactor for pure
fuel efficiency, although barely. In a head-to-head
test, the Jetboil boiled 28 quarts of water, and had
an elapsed burn time of 197 minutes, compared to
24 quarts boiled and a 77-minute burn time for the
Reactor. (Tests used a 220-gram propane/butane
mix.) Lastly, the Jetboil’s built-in electric ignition
simplifies lighting up. Presently, MSR is working on
an electric-ignition, but the current Reactor lacks
one—don’t forget to pack a lighter.
Recommendations? The Reactor would be just
about ideal for two people preparing hot meals
for more than one day. Its wind- and cold-weather
performances put it at the top of my list for alpine
climbing and situations where you melt snow for
water. While the stove’s long-term durability and
field-repair-ability are yet to be proven (I did test the
stove 30 times and encountered no problems), it’s
clean, no-fuss operation and fast boil times make it
the only propane-canister stove that trumps whitegas
stoves in an alpine or mountain environment.
—Duane Raleigh

[pulverschwein]

Thanks to PWDR8S for mentioning it I went looking to beta.

Thanks to both of y'all.:)

[Affix Snow]

Ive been looking to pick the Reactor up for a while......seems pretty dope.

[Fanatic1]

Looks like it will be the one to go with when it's available...Just got off the phone with MSR in Washington and it is due out in June but no promises were made!

[PWDR8S]

Trust me on this one guys.... This one really rocks!

I was fortunate enough to do field testing of the reactor for almost 2 months and I had a really really tough time returning it. I just didn't want to let it go, it was that impressive. I took it up top o the rock pile in 50+ winds and I was stunned that I got it lit and it boiled up some water.... mind you, it took a little longer what with the winds stealing away the heat...but it did it!

Rain, snow, hail... I tried to find any and all of the nastiest situations to use it and of course regular camping fun. I had no problems except knocking it over when an overzealous pup wanted to play. You can even heat up your tent quickly with one(not recommended but it sure helped).
I wonder if there have been any changes from my prototype to the finished product? Doesn't appear so form the looks.

Figures they pushed the release back to June..... Like most products, they aim for a date and it gets pushed back and again and again.

I can't wait to get mine! Yippeeee! I earned credits for testing the stove so I saved the cred for the purchase of one of these. Well worth the wait in my book.

One of the nicer things about this is the pan is wider than what Jetboil offers in their package... If you're a one cup coffee/tea and then one pot meal, this is the ticket.


ADD: I forgot to mention the stove I tested had push button ignition and it worked EVERYTIME. :D

[Ispoiler]

Having missed meals when promised a gas would work at 9k and did not, has there been any testing at altitude of this mix? The hardcore preheat canisters for use in higher, colder areas, that kinda scares me! Def seems like the ticket for its intended range, I can't wait to try one.

[NtrentT]

I like my jetboil, Ive used it for several years but....
I usually bring a white gas stove with me, the Primus Vari-fuel because I have started not to trust the Jetboil.

I found on my Garfield trip this past season, the Jetboil hardly worked, and one day the temp at night registered -4 it did not boil.

So now I'm just looking for a nice titanium pot and am going to use the white gas exclusively.

Heres a link to a comparison report on backcountryagenda between a whisperlight and a snowpeak. Iso Vs. WG.

I will continue to use the JB on casual day trips when I want something warm but really nothing else.

http://www.techsourceconsultants.com/smf/index.php?topic=574.0

[RR]

I like my jetboil, Ive used it for several years but....
I usually bring a white gas stove with me, the Primus Vari-fuel because I have started not to trust the Jetboil.

I found on my Garfield trip this past season, the Jetboil hardly worked, and one day the temp at night registered -4 it did not boil.

So now I'm just looking for a nice titanium pot and am going to use the white gas exclusively.

Heres a link to a comparison report on backcountryagenda between a whisperlight and a snowpeak. Iso Vs. WG.

I will continue to use the JB on casual day trips when I want something warm but really nothing else.

http://www.techsourceconsultants.com/smf/index.php?topic=574.0That's overly harsh. There are things you can do to make it better in the cold, but it is awesome for the heart of summer. That's when I take my Pocket Rocket stove, but that canister stove is a late Spring through early Fall cooker.

I too am interested in the Reactor's alti performance...that regulator may be the ticket for an extra 2-3 thousand feet!

[NtrentT]

Im slightly jaded because the JB doesn't seem to be too durable and its fuel diffuser screens are nowhere to be found. A buddy of mine has a new one and it works better but of course in optimal environments.

I do like the click = "poof" flame convenience though, and it does package up into a nice package.

The top of mine cracked at the AVI class at hojos, so if its 5F out dont try to press down the cover or it will split. Those you can find at EMS.

[RR]

...The top of mine cracked at the AVI class at hojos, so if its 5F out dont try to press down the cover or it will split. Those you can find at EMS.Not the first either...that's a PITA! You got the Coffee Press version of the cover to replace? They are supposed to be somewhat better.

[NtrentT]

No I dont have the coffee press, I have the original one, but the press does look nice, but its just too much $$

[davidhowland14]

i've found that jetboils really slow down in the cold, almost to the speed of a normal stove, and then you're stuck with the small pot. My other camping stoves use an butane-propane mix which seperates at cold temps and burns very slowly. other than a propane stove (MSR one), the only really reliable stove I have found that works well at cold temps and wouldn't be affected by altitude (i think) is my pepsican alcohol stove. Tiny, wieghtless, fuel can be bought anywhere. just don't put it on a snowbank, it'll melt it's way to the ground. it still boils in just under 4 minutes, but you can't control the heat level (no simmer) and you can't turn it off.

I do like the looks of the Reactor, though. thanks for posting the review. $140 seems a tad steep, though. is that the final price? also, you can get a group cooking setup for the jetboil (heat exchanger stuck on a bigger pot). could you get the same for the reactor?

[RR]

....also, you can get a group cooking setup for the jetboil (heat exchanger stuck on a bigger pot). could you get the same for the reactor?I would be very suprized if a larger pot for the Reactor did not appear in the second year.

My old Whisperlight International runs on just about anything and have never failed....its only serious drawback (imo) is the stove stench when it is shut down. Fortunately it can be moved out of the tent before shutdown if one is careful about it.

[jshefftz]

Any canister stove will work fine at altitude regarding air pressure -- it's the typically colder temps and higher winds at altitude that diminish canister stove performance. (Although the Jetboil copes much better than regular canister stoves, and the new Reactor certainly looks promising - now if only REI currently stocked it so I could use my 20% off coupon.)

Regarding attempts to boost more performance out of a canister stove by preheating the canister, check out the test at backpackinglight.com for how vulnerable canisters are to exploding because of extra heat.

[RR]

Thanks J., here is the link: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/exploding_gas_canisters_the_hazard_of_overheating. html

You will see a precis, but if you want to read the whole story of the test and see the results you have to subscribe for almost 25 bucks. I did so and here is what happened to the test subject canister:

The canister was put in a pot of cool water that was brought to 208F (short of boiling) on an electric hotplate. At about 14 minutes the canister ruptured and released a cloud of gas vapor with a loud BANG!. The cloud of gas then proceded to condense before dissapating in a light breeze. Due to a lack of ignition source the cloud was not a ball of flame.

EDIT: The bottom of the canister was deformed and stayed in the pot. The top, however, went on a lengthy trip into the air and landed quite a distance from the test site. If there had been an ingnition source the forces would have been greater by a considerable margin!

Useing a hand warmer pack to heat the canister seems unlikely to get the canister to 208F.

[PWDR8S]

Thanks J., here is the link: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/exploding_gas_canisters_the_hazard_of_overheating. html

You will see a precis, but if you want to read the whole story of the test and see the results you have to subscribe for almost 25 bucks. I did so and here is what happened to the test subject canister:

The canister was put in a pot of cool water that was brought to 208F (short of boiling) on an electric hotplate. At about 14 minutes the canister ruptured and released a cloud of gas vapor with a loud BANG!. The cloud of gas then proceded to condense before dissapating in a light breeze. Due to a lack of ignition scource the cloud was not a ball of flame.

Useing a hand warmer pack to heat the canister seems unlikely to get the canister to 208F.

Kids! Don't use a lighter either to "warm up the canister"! :eek: It could get messy!

[MntMan4SugBush]

I took my MSR Firefly that uses ISO up Aconcagua and used it at our high camp (19,200 ft) in our tent with a hanging kit and it lit up fine. The boil time was a bit slower, but it got the job done. The harder part was finding ISO in Argentina 5 years ago. It took some calling around and planning, but I found some. I'm interested to see how the Reaction does, but I have the fact that both of these stoves limit your cooking surface. Granted at high alt. I'm not cooking bacon and eggs, but I also like to go on leisure hikes and trips where firing up some corned beef hash would be nice. For now the Firefly goes in my pack.

[RR]

I took my MSR Firefly that uses ISO up Aconcagua and used it at our high camp (19,200 ft) in our tent with a hanging kit and it lit up fine. The boil time was a bit slower, but it got the job done. The harder part was finding ISO in Argentina 5 years ago. It took some calling around and planning, but I found some. I'm interested to see how the Reaction does, but I have the fact that both of these stoves limit your cooking surface. Granted at high alt. I'm not cooking bacon and eggs, but I also like to go on leisure hikes and trips where firing up some corned beef hash would be nice. For now the Firefly goes in my pack.Several of my friends have drilled three holes in their Jet-boil stoves to make them into hanging stoves. The large pot might have lid clearance issues but the original pot did pretty well by their accounts.

The Reactor looks like it would do just as well as a hanging stove provided the element attachment can be trusted. If that turns out to be the case, then boil times will shrink for folks out on the wall. Not that I have spent any nights on walls, being too concerned with cushy comforts in camp :)

[MntMan4SugBush]

Hanging stoves are great anywhere (not to high-jack a thread - sorry). I don't spend much time on walls myself. I use mine in the winter so I don't have to worry about kicking it over in a vestibule or cooking outside at night or in the morning. Plus there's nothing like waking up, reaching up and screwing in the canister, turning on the stove and laying back down in a warm sleeping bag to wake up while the water begins to boil and the tent warms.

[NtrentT]

I took my MSR Firefly that uses ISO up Aconcagua and used it at our high camp (19,200 ft) in our tent with a hanging kit and it lit up fine. The boil time was a bit slower, but it got the job done. The harder part was finding ISO in Argentina 5 years ago. It took some calling around and planning, but I found some. I'm interested to see how the Reaction does, but I have the fact that both of these stoves limit your cooking surface. Granted at high alt. I'm not cooking bacon and eggs, but I also like to go on leisure hikes and trips where firing up some corned beef hash would be nice. For now the Firefly goes in my pack.

You also need to consider your boiling temperature at that elevation, which happens to be 175.4F with a barometric pressure of 29.921 inches of mercury. So it took longer to boil at a temp of 175.4, what was the ambient temp around the stove?

With equal ambient temps and barometric pressure, how long do you think it would take at sea level to reach 212F? Even slower ...

Just food for thought.

[RR]

You also need to consider your boiling temperature at that elevation, which happens to be 175.4F with a barometric pressure of 29.921 inches of mercury. So it took longer to boil at a temp of 175.4, what was the ambient temp around the stove?

With equal ambient temps and barometric pressure, how long do you think it would take at sea level to reach 212F? Even slower ...

Just food for thought.Even white gas stoves suffer at altitude. The real savings of the Reactor may be in the sheer efficiency of the second generation version. This first one seems to be a bit of a fuel hog. Till the second generation is out, this one still looks to be a good choice where a group has porterage getting to base....given the fuel requirements.

I wonder if the Jet-Boil folks will be upping the ante with a new model??

[NtrentT]

Even white gas stoves suffer at altitude. The real savings of the Reactor may be in the sheer efficiency of the second generation version. This first one seems to be a bit of a fuel hog. Till the second generation is out, this one still looks to be a good choice where a group has porterage getting to base....given the fuel requirements.

I wonder if the Jet-Boil folks will be upping the ante with a new model??


True on the W-gas, as with anything that is used to boil water.

I hope Jet-Boil comes up with somthing new.


On a side note, I was reading a great article the other day which scientists have found a way to compress water at a very high consentration which it eventually turns into ICE ! Yet this ice is much hotter than 212F , Its amazing ! (Totally off topic)

[PWDR8S]

True on the W-gas, as with anything that is used to boil water.

I hope Jet-Boil comes up with somthing new.


On a side note, I was reading a great article the other day which scientists have found a way to compress water at a very high consentration which it eventually turns into ICE ! Yet this ice is much hotter than 212F , Its amazing ! (Totally off topic)

Could this mean? Sliding in July???? :cool:

[RR]

True on the W-gas, as with anything that is used to boil water.

I hope Jet-Boil comes up with somthing new.


On a side note, I was reading a great article the other day which scientists have found a way to compress water at a very high consentration which it eventually turns into ICE ! Yet this ice is much hotter than 212F , Its amazing ! (Totally off topic)For crying out loud! Frigging ICE NINE :eek:
Didn't they read "Cat's Cradle"?

[PWDR8S]

For crying out loud! Frigging ICE NINE :eek:
Didn't they read "Cat's Cradle"?

OMG... that's right! How could I forget! Hmmm.... man made ice age... not good.

Good catch RR!

[NtrentT]

If they made snow out of that stuff we would need some 200F+ wax for our boards, and hope not to fall, plus face shots would be somthing we would not want any more & Snowball fights would be considered a crime too. O wait and forget snow angels...

[PWDR8S]

If they made snow out of that stuff we would need some 200F+ wax for our boards, and hope not to fall, plus face shots would be somthing we would not want any more & Snowball fights would be considered a crime too. O wait and forget snow angels...

I guess frostbite would not be an issue either. :rolleyes:

And avalanches would be catagorised as Lahars of a sort!

[RR]

I guess frostbite would not be an issue either. :rolleyes:

And avalanches would be catagorised as Lahars of a sort!So....Lahar, Lahar, Pants on Fire would be an actual event?!?

[PWDR8S]

So....Lahar, Lahar, Pants on Fire would be an actual event?!?
:doh:

[PWDR8S]

I just read an article reviewing a topic initiated a year ago regarding cooking in your tent and the respective dangers involved. This research focused on the CO2 and CO output of many of the popular makes of camping stoves with the focus on CO (the deadly Carbon Monoxide).

http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/stoves_tents_carbon_monoxide_pt_3.html

According to Part 3 of this ongoing research, the MSR Reactor stove proved to be very dangerous when 'simmering' or on low power, putting out 1000 ppm but it drops dramatically when it's cranked up(down to 50 ppm on high)... 400 ppm is lethal after 3hrs....

Most stoves that allow greater space between burner and cookpot fared better due to more air being allowed to mix as the exhaust leaves the combustion area. The MSR Reactor has very little space for air to mix in and creates a vacuum of sorts(backpressure) and stalls any incoming air thus starving the combustion of Oxygen. This restriction causes an inefficient burn and huge quantities of CO is created. When the fuel is cranked up, it forces the air through and prevents this trapped exhaust from producing so much CO. The restriction of airflow was caused by exhaust holes(and perhaps air intake too?) not being large enough and placed too close to the heated pot thus creating backpressure preventing a good steady airflow. A couple design mods were recommended like increasing the size of the air intake holes in the safety screen near the venturi tubes(there are 2 tubes) under the head and possibly raising the pot by a couple mm and increasing the exhuast holes size. Should you acquire a reactor prior to the corrections, you could mod it yourself with a router or drill. MSR is aware of this and has taken measures to correct the problem. Perhaps this is the cause for the further release delay?

PLEASE NOTE: the testers were given a prototype of the MSR Reactor and have not received a replacement by the time this article was written. The newer version of the Reactor has taken this issue into account but has yet to be tested.

= It's a good thing I didn't test this in my tent when I was field testing it! :eek: I might not be here writing this now! But then I may have had the newer modified design to test. We shall see! Another note.... this stove looks just like my bug eye tent heater but in miniature..... The study did show that the ppm without the pot on it dropped to below 50 ppm soooooo it may become the new stealth tent heater. ( I did not say this )

Conc, ppm Effect
0 - 1 Normal background
9 Max allowed for short term exposure in a living room, acc to ASHRAE, USA
25 Often encountered on major roads - UK figure
30 Health and Safety limit for 8 hours - UK
35 Suggested max allowable concín for continuous exposure for 8 hr - ASHRAE, USA
100 May be encountered on major roads during weather inversions - UK figure
200 Health and Safety limit for 15 minutes - UK
200 Mild headache, fatigue, nausea, dizziness. Limit for transient exposure - USA
200 Slight headache, tiredness, dizziness, nausea after 2-3 hr - ASHRAE, USA
300 Can lead to collapse - UK MoD
400 Frontal headache, life threatening after 3 hrs

[Affix Snow]

Interesting video about it.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34EMehx1XHQ

Think ill go prodeal this now. :D

[RR]

daaahhh Yogi, which one?

I dunno BooBoo, the one that fits the picanic basket?

[jshefftz]

I just read an article reviewing a topic initiated a year ago regarding cooking in your tent and the respective dangers involved.
I had the same reaction when I read about the MSR Reactor performance.
Now I'm strongly thinking about the Primus EtaPower.

[PWDR8S]

I'm already commited to it. Besides.... I noticed differences in the model BPL tested and the vid AFFIX linked..... vent holes in the base of the pot appeared to be larger in the video. I wonder if the air intakes have been modified as well? Hmmmmm......