MRG's Venerable Single Chair: History?

[Skilasnow]

So here is the skinny on our beloved single.

The Coop management is looking into three options:

1. A complete refurbishment of existing Single, including machinery, towers, tower bases, return load stations... whatever is needed. This would probably cost us no more than $500K, and probably somewhere around 300K depending on how many tower bases would have to be replaced. It is currently "believed" by all 3 peoples, The Coop, Dopplmyer engineers, and VT Tramway Commision, that all or most of the towers themselves are in good condition, but that several or up to all tower bases are not, but testing at that level has not been done.

2. Replace entirely with a brand new Single Lift, including new bases, cylinder towers, chairs, machinery, etc. This to the tune of $1.5 million

3. Replace entirely with a new Double Chair. About $1 million

The Coop has been putting $75,000 a year into a special account for 3 or 4 years solely for the single chair capital improvement. By 2006 we ought to be able to pay for a complete refurbishment in cash or almost.

Once the management has all the details needed for all three plans, including thorough testing of the current towers and bases, and full bids for the work for all three plans, a vote of all shareholders will determine the fate. This work is slated to happen in the Summer of 2006, whether we have to borrow $$ from the bank or not.

Just thought some of you would be interested. I, as a shareholder, eagerly await the proposals. I must confess though that I am not sure that if we have to buy a new lift that I will be willing to vote for a new single at a 50% higher price over a double. I think if those are the only two choices I might have to abstain.

[M@]

That is pretty interesting, that a new single costs so much more than a double.

I guess I'd be against a double as it would increase the capacity and thus number of people sharing the trail, that and the loss of a major icon in the valley.

Did they put into the price calculation how much money they are gonna get if they sell those single chairs?

M@

[Skilasnow]

Originally Posted by M@

That is pretty interesting, that a new single costs so much more than a double.

Yeah, no one makes a single anymore so its like having to buy a custom lift

Originally Posted by M@

Did they put into the price calculation how much money they are gonna get if they sell those single chairs?

That is an excellent point. No. These figures are purely cost of building. This is something that will have to be looked at, but if each one were sold at $300, with no mounting equipment (except to a cable), that would still only yield a little over $50K, not much on the grand scheme of things. Though a special non-profit fundraising auction might command a much higher average price.

[cliffhuxtable]

Originally Posted by Skilasnow

So here is the skinny on our beloved single.

The Coop management is looking into three options:

2. Replace entirely with a brand new Single Lift, including new bases, cylinder towers, chairs, machinery, etc. This to the tune of $1.5 million

3. Replace entirely with a new Double Chair. About $1 million


Just thought some of you would be interested. I, as a shareholder, eagerly await the proposals. I must confess though that I am not sure that if we have to buy a new lift that I will be willing to vote for a new single at a 50% higher price over a double. I think if those are the only two choices I might have to abstain.

#3.....not an option. though not a sharhold (if i hit it big in AC this w/e.....) i have skied 3-6 days a year for the past 14 years and i don't see how the pep's i know there or potentially myself would allow such blasphemy to occur.

know how GSP Amy is?

[RR]

If the bases have to be repaired why not go all the way and go with the cylinder towers and a medium-speed detatchable single.

high-speed would put too much traffic on Stark. Medium would be a little faster and yet keep the traffic closer to the current levels. Keep a few of the old seats but auction the rest off as new, local-made seats are installed. Spread the work, spread the wealth!

[Skilasnow]

Originally Posted by cliffhuxtable

#3.....not an option.

Originally Posted by RR

If the bases have to be repaired why not go all the way and go with the cylinder towers and a medium-speed detatchable single

for a non-profit, money is a HUGE big deal. If refurbishment is not an option than a new single would cost us 500K MORE than a new double. Replacing all of the tower bases in a complete refurbishment would still be a lot cheaper. The coops pockets are not very deep.

[RR]

Originally Posted by Skilasnow

for a non-profit, money is a HUGE big deal. ... The coops pockets are not very deep.

Fer sure.... raise the price of beer five cents and put that nickle to work....

Just don't raise the uphill capacity very much, if at all. More skiers would mean more frequent trail closings or the additional expense of increased snowmaking....yeeeech!

[PWDR8S]

Originally Posted by RR

Fer sure.... raise the price of beer five cents and put that nickle to work....

Just don't raise the uphill capacity very much, if at all. More skiers would mean more frequent trail closings or the additional expense of increased snowmaking....yeeeech!

Snowmaking? Auuugggghhhhh!!!!!! Wash your mouth out! Say it ain't so!.... I love that chair! It's been my midwinter meditation sanctuary for years! The changes will be painful...... ow ow ow! Oh well... time marches on.

[cliffhuxtable]

Originally Posted by Skilasnow

The Coop has been putting $75,000 a year into a special account for 3 or 4 years solely for the single chair capital improvement. By 2006 we ought to be able to pay for a complete refurbishment in cash or almost.

Just thought some of you would be interested. I, as a shareholder, eagerly await the proposals. I must confess though that I am not sure that if we have to buy a new lift that I will be willing to vote for a new single at a 50% higher price over a double. I think if those are the only two choices I might have to abstain.

From Eric Friedman: "Shareholders in the Mad River Glen Cooperative have come together to fulfill their mission; "…to preserve and protect the forests and mountain ecosystem of General Stark Mountain in order to provide skiing and other recreational access and to maintain the unique character of the area for present and future generations."

Skileneige: Sup with your last sentance there?....Not too much unique about a 2x chair. As of a few years back the place was paid off. So $$$ don't seem to be an issue. Plus 2x the traffic.....hmmm, not too much unique bout that either.

And RR: High speed single??? Yikes! I'll tell you, they can ole' bess moving pretty darn fast.

Snowmaking: I skied both MRG and SB last season the last w/e MRG was open. There is such a huge difference between what happens to MM snow (SB) than natural it's amazing. MM layers into crust and ice sheets with water and slush between creating a crappy death cake to ski. The o-natural provides a very consistant layer of Sweeeeet corn to glide. Just like Tux.

[Skilasnow]

Originally Posted by cliffhuxtable

From Eric Friedman: "Shareholders in the Mad River Glen Cooperative have come together to fulfill their mission; "…to preserve and protect the forests and mountain ecosystem of General Stark Mountain in order to provide skiing and other recreational access and to maintain the unique character of the area for present and future generations."

AND to maintain financial viability in order to do so. Money is an issue, very much so. True we have been operating in the black, but only barely. A few seasons like last season, would be financially devestating to the cooperative.

We paid off the mortgage not by revenues, but by share sales, which was the plan all along. The revenues cover operating expenses and contribute to the smaller capital expenses, such as building upgrades, but they are a far cry from being able to cover the cost of a new chair.

I do NOT want to see the single go, I assure you!!! One argument to allowing an increase in uphill capacity is that downhill capacity is increasing due to greater numbers of viable tree runs, thanks to that ice storm and gradual clean-up of the deadwood. I am NOT in favor of changing anything at all. I have voted solidly with the status quo since becoming a shareholder. However, the single must be worked on by 2006, and keeping it as it is may not be a viable option. Face facts, entropy exists and there is nothing we can do about it, I sincerely hope that keeping a single, even a brand new on, is a viable option.

[Castlerock]

Don't be silly, put in a double with half the chairs! Basically that is what Sugarbush did for the Castlerock lift. A slow fixed grip single with 20 seconds or so between the chairs

[DMC]

I'm mainly a snowboarder so I really can't comment on things MRG...
But.........
I was at MRG last year on telemark skis.. And I gotta say...
I can apprieciate the history and everything.. but... At some point you just gotta throw in the towel on useable history...

We dont go flying around in the "Spirit Of St Louis" anymore..

[cliffhuxtable]

Originally Posted by DMC

I'm mainly a snowboarder so I really can't comment on things MRG...
But.........
I was at MRG last year on telemark skis.. And I gotta say...
I can apprieciate the history and everything.. but... At some point you just gotta throw in the towel on useable history...

We dont go flying around in the "Spirit Of St Louis" anymore..

^To hell with that. Thats the whole thing DMC: It is a living, breathing museum of ideals and any major deviations would eat be cannibalistic. Don't want "Spirit of St. Louis".........go down the street. I'll take soul anyday.

Personally I think the whole thing is a hoax......like the farce cooked up that the gov. was kicked off by Betsy Pratt when he brought his snowboard. Total publicity stunt. I read the article in the valleyreporter......which is Onion-like sometimes.

[cliffhuxtable]

Originally Posted by cliffhuxtable

^To hell with that. Thats the whole thing DMC: It is a living, breathing museum of ideals and any major deviations would be cannibalistic. Don't want "Spirit of St. Louis".........go down the street. I'll take soul anyday.

Personally I think the whole thing is a hoax......like the farce cooked up that the gov. was kicked off by Betsy Pratt when he brought his snowboard. Total publicity stunt. I read the article in the valleyreporter......which is Onion-like sometimes.

Hate no grammtic check........And yeah, whatta bout the improvement project to the wheelhouse and mid-station

All for not? Come one, why would they spend all that $$ to replace it in a couple years

[DMC]

I guess my point was..
At some point (god forbid) someones going to get maimed riding on that ancient technology.. Old stuff becomes unusable at some point and the amount of upgrades needed to get them up to code - replace the old with new stuff..

Sure a 50 year old chair lift is a quality of soul....
But I find soul in the terrain...

As far as snowboarding MRG is concerned... It is laid out for skiers... It really doesnt bother me THAT much I can't ride there... I would gladly take a test and prove that I can ride snowboard better then half those people can ski... But ... It will never happen...
I've heard a million different reasons...
But really now the only thing stopping us from riding there now is SkiLas and his buddys..
And the way SkiLas feels about riders.... Dont expect us there anytime soon...