BC Access.... Is this the time to organize in the Northeast?

[RR]

One of the points brought home by the turnout to the Oct 17, Big Jay Restoration Fund benefit showing of PW07 is that there most definitely is a backcountry community in the Northeast. I realize that it could be as futile as herding cats, but such a community could have an organized or confederated role to play in backcountry access issues.

Neither NET nor NATO appears to have such a mission as charter. On the other hand it is clear that both organizations do care and have participated when asked in awareness campaigns. As stewardship concerns are part of a purely practical backcountry committment it may be time to poll the organizations for their interest in participation in an alliance regarding winter sports access issues.

Research shows there are some western oriented alliances doing that work. If they can, we can. Your thoughts and ideas?

[stoneman]

meow.

[boardman]

Originally Posted by RR

One of the points brought home by the turnout to the Oct 17, Big Jay Restoration Fund benefit showing of PW07 is that there most definitely is a backcountry community in the Northeast. I realize that it could be as futile as herding cats, but such a community could have an organized or confederated role to play in backcountry access issues.

Neither NET nor NATO appears to have such a mission as charter. On the other hand it is clear that both organizations do care and have participated when asked in awareness campaigns. As stewardship concerns are part of a purely practical backcountry committment it may be time to poll the organizations for their interest in participation in an alliance regarding winter sports access issues.

Research shows there are some western oriented alliances doing that work. If they can, we can. Your thoughts and ideas?

Have we lost any BC access in the northeast, or is any threatened? I would say that would be the onus for organizing. I haven't heard of any issues like we face in the rock climbing realm (private land, archeaological issues, bolting bans, climbing management plans, encroaching development, wildlife closures, quotas, etc.). But perhaps they exist?

[RR]

In the main, things work better for snow season uses as the medium is mostly ephemeral. Even so, I heard the words, "We don't want to close off Big Jay, but we may have to look at it....", from officials of the GMC. I think our immediate, albeit unorganized response in this matter has been a balm to the wound, as it were. In this case it may be enough.

IMO, those are some chilly phrases and that's why I am posing the question all over the place.

[RR]

Originally Posted by stoneman

meow.

ironic ain't it?

[stoneman]

yup... but i wouldn't ever say that.

[samthaman]

i saw your post on TGR too, i generally think organization is a good thing, but east coast BC dosen't lend itself well to organization. People are inherently secret about where they ski BC out here, consequently any discussion of it would be taboo. In the case of Big Jay, you may be right, but frankly i dont see any organization growing beyond protecting big Jay, other areas just arent in danger (are they?).

sam

[riverc0il]

I had actually done some thinking on this even before the Big Jay cut. Not only for advocacy issues but also to link fellow BC'ers together and bring about more community in the activity. Who here has not gone solo before prefering to have some company? It would also be interesting to push for organized BC cutting of glade runs as a method of keeping forests healthy while also increasing the amount of honest to goodness quality earned turn runs. Goodness knows supply is much lower than demand in these parts. The Big Jay issue only ups the anty as who is spreading the gospel of the typical BC skier that thinks the BC cut was done by a bunch of rouge knuckleheads not interested in what most BC skiers want. Interesting to hear that the GMC considers (if not formally stated) eliminating public access to Big Jay. What group is advocating for access?

[surf88]

Originally Posted by samthaman

i generally think organization is a good thing, but east coast BC dosen't lend itself well to organization. People are inherently secret about where they ski BC out here, consequently any discussion of it would be taboo. In the case of Big Jay, you may be right, but frankly i dont see any organization growing beyond protecting big Jay, other areas just arent in danger (are they?).

This is a good point, I think its because east Coast BC requires alot more maintenance (ie picking up blowdown) due to the dense tree canopy. Most of the BC I've done out west did not require any cutting, or maintenance. Most of the time this maintenance can be done discreetly with out drawing attention to the presence of the trail. Its only when you get Idiots like the Big Jay idiots, that BC access becomes threatened. For now IMHO think that on a regional scale putting out fires as they spring up might be a more discreet way of handling issues. What I would like to see is something similar to what FOMBA,a local mountain bike club, did on the quasi public land surrounding lake massabesic here in NH.
http://www.fomba.com/index.htm
It would be neat to establish an association like this on a lost ski area that is now publicly owned land.

Originally Posted by stoneman
meow.

Last sat I went up and picked up blowdown on the TFT, and Le Black Cat

[M@]

hiss! PFFFT! Meow.

M@

[surfsnowywaves]

Originally Posted by boardman

Have we lost any BC access in the northeast, or is any threatened? I would say that would be the onus for organizing. I haven't heard of any issues like we face in the rock climbing realm (private land, archeaological issues, bolting bans, climbing management plans, encroaching development, wildlife closures, quotas, etc.). But perhaps they exist?

In fact, yes, some backcountry access has become threatened. As mentioned in this thread, the GMC has at least toyed with the idea of having to close Big Jay, which would be tragic, but I think at this stage unnecessary. But, on a different side, Mount Mansfield has come close to being closed to the public. Few people realize that the summit (the Chin area, home to stuff such as the Timekeeper, Devil's Creek, and Dirty Words) is actually owned by the University of Vermont. A few years ago, there was rampant cutting around the area, especially in the boreal forest, leading to some UVM officials thinking about closing the area. So far they haven't, but let's not give them any reason to doubt their actions. 'Twould be quite disappointing.

Personally, I'm not too hugely worried about backcountry areas having to get closed, I'm worried about ski areas having to rope off runs for entire seasons because they've creeped too big and the ski areas smarten up and realize that they're losing precious snow to the winds on their "beautiful" 100-150 foot wide slopes. (I prefer ski TRAILS anyways, not ski SLOPES)

[bucksaw]

Originally Posted by surf88

This is a good point, I think its because east Coast BC requires alot more maintenance (ie picking up blowdown) due to the dense tree canopy. Most of the time this maintenance can be done discreetly with out drawing attention to the presence of the trail.

To my knowledge (and I have not read through them all) there are no land management plans that account for anything more than using established trails. Anywhere "skiing" is covered the assumption is using the established trail system.

Originally Posted by surf88

Last sat I went up and picked up blowdown on the TFT, and Le Black Cat

It's more classy than that... it's "Le Chat Noir."

[RR]

I'm thinking that a brick and mortar organization such as the climbing community's Access Fund would be a good long term goal, but just now, I'm really more concerned about how we can improve relations with land managers in the immediate and short term.

It would be a good thing if all the organizations (NET, NATO, The Skiing Committee and the several college outing clubs as well as boards had a co-signers type letter of understanding for the GMC.

Please discuss, soonest.

[surf88]

Originally Posted by bucksaw

It's more classy than that... it's "Le Chat Noir."

Meow! I boycot french! I only eat freedom fries

[stoneman]

Yo surfman, what's the TFT?

& thanks for the cleanup