Noob questions

[glenn]

Howdy,

I've been reading about tucks for a few years, and after talking with a friend who went last year I've decided I want to make it happen this year.

So wanting to do this right, I figured I'd ask the experts here, since this site is ALWAYS recommended when talk of tucks comes up in the ski/snowboard forums I frequent.

First off, I snowboard. Will this be a problem. I really have no experience with what the snowboard is capable of in the back country. I am an experienced snowboarder and can ride any east coast diamond with confidence (no significant rockies/west experience). Will I need separate climbing boots from my snowboarding boots? Are crampons available for snowboard boots?

Second, I don't have a proper snowboard specific pack. Will this be an issue? Is the trail up the mountain narrow enough that a jury-rigged pack will not suffice.

Also how robust should my stove be. My mountaineering/hiking has been limited to relatively low elevation and warm weather mountains nights. I'm working on a alcohol penny stove right now, but the concesus seems to be these aren't the greatest in extremely cold weather. I plan to be heading up in april/early may depending on work at that point in time.

Also, how should I train for this? My friend said this was the hardest thing he has ever done, which piqued my interest. I plan on doing a lot of hiking this winter both in and outside of resorts.

I also have intentions of either riding, or hiking -> riding the slides at whiteface this year. I'm wondering how that compares in both hiking difficulty and riding difficulty to various lines at tucks.

Any help you anyone could provide would be appreciated. I'm really just shooting in the dark at things I need to get "figured out" before I take my first step up the mountain. I read through the FAQ already, which answered my question about the need for avy gear. Is it uncommon and/or unnecessary to have that stuff later in the spring when it is recommended first timers go?

Also, I will try to keep everyone updated on my progress this year both in training and actually getting out to tucks.

Thanks,
Glenn

[M@]

VIRGIN!

1st off: Thanks for asking these questions - the well prepared always have more fun and hardly ever impose on everyone else.

That being said: I assume you're not going alone... at least - my opinion is you shouldn't go alone the first time. Even if you go with another 1st timer (like I did) you'll want to share this first experience ... just thinking back to my first time...

I'll defer the snowboarding questions to the snowboarders. If you don't get good answers, send a Private Message to DMC with the word "drums" in it and he'll answer.

You don't need AVY gear for your first trip. I am just now getting the gear and training... You watch the weather... you read the AVY reports online and at Pinkham Notch and you TALK TO THE RANGERS AT HOJOS AND IN THE RAVINE. This is what the newbies do... this is what I do... This is what the most experienced, smart, well trained people do. The rangers themselves talk to each other before heading in there... it's just the thing to do. No-one in the WORLD understand the avalanche danger at Tuckerman's Ravine better then the rangers and ski patrollers who volunteer their time to be there... the #1 reason they are there is to TELL YOU the real report for the day you are there. I cannot stress this point enough. They LOVE to answer questions... they LOVE to point out exactly where the most danger is and what to do to avoid danger.

Camping stove: I used a cheap burner screwed onto the top of little coleman tank. It made coffee + bacon + one of those dehydrated thingys... if my stove works up there yours will. If you're doing a serious cold winter camping trip (not the usual first time thing) then your mileage might vary on the stove thing.

Pack: The trail is really wide for like 98% of the hike. The last 1/4 mile from HoJo --> the Bowl is a single track in the woods... and I've lost a baloon in there, but it's nothing a role of duct-tape can't help you with.

Training: After a season of riding you'll be in fine shape. If you only hit the slopes like once a month and do nothing else all year - I'd worry... I played that game once... wicked painful hike up... almost died... but I made it and had a stellar weekend in the ravine anyway. Last year I was training for a marathon and it was a totally easy hike... so I wouldn't worry about "training" for tux.

As to the slope comparison to whiteface - I dunno, but I will say this: Tux is a BOWL, you hike up until it's too steep then you ski down. Some days you go over the lip or threw the chute... some days you ride the sherby and nothing else.

My advice is have a good size window when you can go - increase your odds for a sunny warm day... cause a sunny warm day in the ravine... oh man - I had to stop typing there for a second... it's that good.

And last but not least : Bring a camera... and post pictures back here. That's all we ask.. it's not so much...

M@

[surfsnowywaves]

Here's the low down. I went for my first time last May, and I had an amazing time. I snowboard mainly, and I took my board up into the ravine.

1) Snowboarding will be a major problem. You will have more fun than you can handle. It'll be amazing. It will actually be so amazing that you need a costume for the event. If you do that, you'll be fine. (Pictures necessary, of course. Even better if pictures are put up by the Obs folks for ALL to see.) Separate boots? Well, for the hike up to the bowl, I chose to go in hiking boots. Once in the bowl, I switched to my snowboard boots, and went up in those. I stashed most of my stuff at the bottom of the bowl. Crampons? None for snowboard boots that I'm aware of. But if you need crampons to go up, then you don't want to be there. A bootpack will be well established in the spring, and the snow will be nice and soft to kick steps in. You can always get those YakTrax things or whatever they're called for better traction. As far as ability goes, M@ has it covered. You hike as high as you're comfortable.

2) No pack? No problem. You can get something together by then. Duct tape is a friend of yours, good sir. I have seen people take old external frame packs, taking off the pack itself and just using the frame. Options galore.

3) Stove? I have no experience here. Tucks can be done as a daytrip, which is what I did. Not sure who the caretaker is gonna be this winter at HoJo, although I could easily figure that out. They're generally cool.

4) Training? Real world experience is always the best. Snowboard, hike, hike to snowboard, etc, throughout the winter, and you'll be fine. I "enjoy" running stairs, which could definitely help you. Hint, if your school has a hockey rink, go run stairs there, you sweat less. And cold air is always a pleasure, right? It's definitely not necessary, but I choose to do this to stay active in my offseason (spring/fall).

5+) From what I've heard about the Slides, they're not an amazingly far hike...so nothing like Tux. Tux is a coupla hours to the bowl. Then up the bowl. I am always afraid to give out times for this hike, because my personal time does not reflect averages. For avi stuff, in the spring the avi danger is generally low when it is sunny and not raining. So pay close attention to the weather, to the avi report, and you'll be all set. I didn't bring any avi equipment, nor did 99% of the others skiing/riding the bowl (my guesstimate). Most of the people who ski the bowl probably know next to nothing about avi danger, nor bother to check the reports really, or understand them. Which is bad. Do check this stuff.

10) Have fun. Tons of it. Major-time. It's the reason you're out there.

[RR]

Bookends of wisdom from the wiley veteran and the accomplished first year man.

A liter of water will get most folks to Hermit Lake from the Pinkham Notch trailhead..and a little further. About 100 paces past the Caretakers porch, Lake, just left off the Tuckerman Ravine Trail is the Pump! Refill your water bottle and rejoin the parade. Refill again on the way out..the water is great!

Bring something tasty to eat for lunch, or just a couple PB&Js....nothing wrong with PB&Js....just make sure to bring a couple thousand calories for your active day. They serve an awesome breakfast at the Pinkham Notch Visitor Center...worth every penny...dinner too...well timed at both ends of the day.

Tickets/Summons are handed out by Rangers for unabashedly flouting regulations or breaking laws...arrests are rare, but not unheard of as occasionally armed gendarmes will mingle with the crowd.

If you do start up alone it's rare to stay alone in the Spring. There's bound to be affable companionship to be found by the willing.

[glenn]

Thanks for the replies so far.

I don't plan on going it alone, but I haven't worked out all the details yet. I may go with this friend, but we only see each other once every couple months, so I didn't plan on relying on him for information. Alternatively I will go with my brother, who is a lesser rider than my friend, but built like a mule, and I can likely get him to carry the bulk of our shared food supply . In the ultra-light backpacking world it's common place to hike alone, but I rarely go more than 2 miles alone in the BC, and thats just hiking. So I fully plan to have a at least one buddy.

Good to know about the boot pack, and I just found some pictures on this site that answered my questions (I think) about the terrain difficulty and hike-ability.

Also, I hadn't begun to think about my water needs, but with a pump that makes things easy.

I live in PA and have a place to stay near whiteface (which I'm not sure in terms of driving time helps at all), so I'm thinking to do tux as a day trip doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Since there will be basically a day of driving in each direction I'd like to get 2 or more days of riding in, on top of hike in/out. So maybe a total of 2 nights 3 days on the mountain.

Obviously it's impossible to tell now, but what are the typical and also the extreme temperatures that I encounter overnight on a typical noobie trip. I've got gear now that I think will work, but I'd like to actually verify by getting out on some cold nights in my bag in either a tent or lean-to to see what the deal is. I live within 2 miles of the Appalachian trail, so I've got some "practice" facilities to work with.

Although after the previous comments it seems maybe the noobie style trek isn't as hardcore (on the backpacking end of things) as I anticipated. On the other hand, those pics I alluded to earlier looked like great riding terrain.

Regarding the slides, the approach from whiteface itself is a super easy hike. Alternatively (since it is state owned) you can hike up the mountain from the other side (1.5 miles maybe? probably 2k vert) and ride the slides, which is what I was referring to.

Pretty cool you mentioned DMC. I've seen him here and there on the web promoting Hunter and this website. I always assumed he rode two planks though...

Anyways, thanks for the advice so far, and by all means if there is more let me have it!

-Glenn

[NtrentT]

All has been said pretty much.

When climbing in the bowl, most likely you will be in a "boot ladder" be cautious not to let your board slip and fall, it could seriously hurt the people below you. On that note, be cautious of those above you incase they slip, fall, or drop their stuff.

I personally strap my skis to my pack when I climb up there.

In the stove department: A simple ISO-butane stove would be fine for most temperatures, but when it gets very cold white-gas works the best, but not as convenient.


The water out of the pump is great there, and is safe to drink without treatment.

If you stay overnight, there is a fee and you pay the caretaker usually, or you can purchase your nights at the visitor center before you hike up and they will give you a ticket to give to the caretaker, I think its 8 bucks a night per person

If you stay overnight, HANG YOUR FOOD out of reach from critters, pine martins are known to take people's food (it happened to me before)

Most caretakers usually like it when people bring them beer. Come to think of it, most people in general like it when beer is given to them too...

Wear layers that you can strip off when you hike up cause you will be warm and when you get there it could be allot cooler so you'll need those layers.

[davidhowland14]

Everyone else has pretty much covered things, but I can weigh in on the stove. I use a pepsi-can alcohol stove, and have used this at TUX. It worked fine in the winter (temps around 5 is the coldest i've used it). It does tend to melt into the snow, though. And there will be snow. Other than that, have fun, and don't get hurt.

[2plankerider]

my first piece of advice would be to take it all in.....you only get yer cherry popped once!

bring some guiness to the caretaker
bring some booze to share at the HOJOS deck party in the evening
bring some extra beers, leave them in your car, enjoy when you get down.
crampons make you feel like spiderman (especially if you are in snowboard boots)
i am a big fan of strapping your gear on your back when in the bowl. (quiver compatable packs are good) schlepping your board or skis over your shoulder just plain sucks...
wear sunscreen on a sunny day, bring sunglasses, squinting sucks too.
you can trade for anything if you have BACON (the M@ bacon theory)

doing it hungover sucks the most, but must be done at some point.

be prepared to turn around and check your ego at the door

[Affix Snow]

Think again about the slides at WF.

5.5miles up the backside to reach the top. Shorter from the front, but WF frowns on uphill travel duing operation.

More importantly, please dont even attempt the slides unless you have Avi gear and TRAINING. (Same goes for TUX in Winter. Listen to the rangers otherwise)

Otherwise, ill echo what the others have said about TUX. Have fun and teak PIX!!!

[boardman]

my $.02 - there are strap-on crampons available for snowboard boots, but I wouldn't place too much confidence in them, as the boots are just too soft. I actually use my leather mountaineering boots for hiking in and riding, and they've served me well all over Mt. Washington and other places. I simply adjust the straps on my bindings to get the snug fit I need, and I've handled 50 degrees in them confidently. This way, when I need to put my step-in crampons on, it's easy-peasy.

To get in shape, do lots of hiking, or hit the stairmaster at your local gym if you don't have nearby hills. I used to train in the stairwell of my office building, climbing 12 stories with a weighed pack, taking the elevator down, then repeating. Earn some turns over the winter on a few of the other BC gems in NE, like the Alexandria and Duke's trails, the Sherbie, the GOS trail, and others. This will have you in good stead come prime Tux time (April/May).

And yeah, bring beer.

[RR]

Originally Posted by boardman

... I actually use my leather mountaineering boots for hiking in and riding, and they've served me well all over Mt. Washington and other places.....

Jeff the Ranger boards @ TUX almost exclusively in plastic mountaineering boots. Boarders in mountaineering boots of all descriptions and even randonee boots have been seen just about everywhere in the BC....

Until you organize a pair for yourself, don't sweat it, the sb boots will be fine...just consider the advice of the other boarders.

Happy Trails

[glenn]

I promised a follow up, so here it is. Little late on the draw, but figured I'd offer some stoke as the winter season is gearing back up. I ended up moving to Colorado last winter on a whim but came back east to finish school and of course ride tux.

I departed PA with my friend S at about 5 p.m on thur 4-24. After dodging several moose on the final 5 mile stretch we made it to the parking lot around 3 a.m. Lousy car sleeping and then breakfast and the hike up. I had been at living 10,000 feet for the past several months so it was a walk in the park to get to the caretakers place, even with my 45 lb pack. S was hiking in ski boots to help reduce pack weight and so there were lots of stops. Getting our lean to I make 1 run on Hillmans. Decent snow and fair coverage. Things were warm and relatively calm at the summit of Hillman's. Not at all what I expected, and not at all typical from what I am told.

View from Hillmans


S made a second run on the lower snowfields. I went back to the leanto to begin the nights festivities. We end up in a leanto with some more folks for PA which is cool, and some other random folks. Everyone is friendly and sharing.

Satuday we wake up later than planned and slowly get ready to ride. Left Gully is the phrase of the day. The place is packed with day hikers all headed for Left Gully. The large portion of Tux is full of runnels with several large crevices and some falling ice danger in some sections.

So the choices are: Left Gully with the hordes, Hillmans again with hordes jr, sketchy looking lines in bowl which may or may not be feasible. This will only be determined upon hiking up and inspecting or...

Dodges.

Dodges has what appears to be a large cornice at the top and a single runnel running down the the middle. The pinch point is about 6 feet wide and the runnel splits it directly down the middle. We decide to hike up rather than drop the cornice into unknown snow conditions, and unknown danger at the pinch (we couldn't access the runnel depth, or pinch width from the bottom). On the way up we were forced off the snow for better traction.

S Leading the way.


Back on the snow we were stopped 3/4 of the way to the top because the snow lost all cohesion as it was just getting cooked by the sun. We had to get on the boards and head down.

S Clicked in


S approaching the pinch


After this I took a lap on the lower snowfields and more evening festivities ensued. We talked with a bunch of groups and it was cool to be off the beaten path and take the line that a whopping 4 people got on all day. Meanwhile everyone else was on left gully and apparently it was getting pretty beat up. Our fellow PA lean-to neighbors decided to summit the peak, but took left gully down. They too were happy to do something a little different.

On sunday we woke up to heavy rain. The first bad weather of the weekend. Slowly we got our things together then rallied down the mountain. I snapped this final pic of the waterfall along the trail on our way out.


Thanks for the advice and pointers guys.

[icelanticskier]

well, saturday looked like a nice day. i had skied up on the rock a few different days that previous midweek, the last one being on fri the 24th. the snow in many places had been beat up which is a direct result of the stupid spring snow wrecking inferno circus from the previous weekend. "friends of tuckermans" my ass. they just wreck the place. anyhow, i was at wildcat on the 25th to avoid the crowds where you were and there were maybe 40 people skiing all of the kitty cuz i presume they were all in tux. perfect conditions at the cat.
one word of advice: i know that it is good practice to climb what yer gonna ski down to get a look at the line and snow and such. however, climbing dodges for 1 is just not somethin you wanna do especially on a weekend when you never know when someone will drop in from above that never saw you climbing. you can pretty much see all that you need to see of dodges while climbing hillmans and the snow conditions on hillmans won't be much different or as good as dodges on any given day. you can see plenty of dodges from the top for yer entrance options as only the 1st few turns at the top are even remotely steep and exposed, below the top you may as well be skiing right gully. i always get a chuckle when i see people climbing dodges when there is a perfectly sculpted booter on hillmans.
2nd word of advice: climbing in the plants and rock cuz you could't get a grip means you should get crampons and stay on the snow cuz the plant life is so fragile. not saying that i've never stepped on a plant up there, but you should stay on snow if snow is there.
the east snowfields were completely untracked the day before you were there when i was up there and would've provided a similar experience during the circus in left on sat. ya picked a good weather day to be up there. it was an epic spring right into july up there. things are slowly fillin in. won't be long.
rog

[M@]

Originally Posted by glenn

I promised a follow up, so here it is. Little late on the draw, but figured I'd offer some stoke as the winter season is gearing back up.

Nice TR! Thanks for the share, well documented - ballsy choice on Dodges on your first trip.

And mad reps for making the effort to report back - even if it is a little late - it's well timed, many stoke points.

M@

[icelanticskier]

oops, got my dates wrong. sat was the 26th, the day you skied dodges making friday the 25th and friday the 18th was the day i skied dodges before work. sorry, just anal about my calendar dates. and yes, dodges was a nice choice on a busy day.
rog